[This post cc cypherpunks@algebra.com & cypherpunks@cyberpass.net to aid propogation which seems to be struggling.] In trying to figure out which lists were working, I noticed that there are now many more people on coderpunks and cryptography than there are on cypherpunks... take a look at these figures: 713 cryptography@c2.net 713 coderpunks@toad.com 245 cypherpunks@algebra.com + cypherpunks@cyberpass.net - duplicates Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in cypherpunks projects. They went through the phase of buying kewl domain names (take a look down the subscriber lists), tinkering with remailers, and have now graduated to making money from crypto consulting, and lost interest in the issues where they don't add to the bottom line. Oh yeah, I know you might argue that selling crypto is a good thing, and it is, but the two are not completely focused in the same direction: corporate, or consulting interests want to sell crypto, to export crypto, cypherpunks want tools to increase the power of the individual. An example of this different focus is perhaps the SAFE bill. Lots of corporates seem keen on SAFE, because it increases their market place. Individuals right to use crypto in the US can go to hell. Before anyone leaps down my throat, the above is a gross generalisation, and is intended as food for thought only. I know plenty of you who are involved in the crypto business and who haven't lost your ideals, and think SAFE is a bad deal, etc. However, I think the trend exists. Adam (btw coderpunks won't give you it's subscriber list unless you're subscribed) -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`