Hi, Some have posited that the traditional way of looking at religion, logic, and culture is false and that in fact a new methodology of examination has been found. What is happening is that some faction has decided to abandon 5000+ years of human social and religous culture in favor of a new set of definitions. These definitions use the traditional terminology in a new manner and in addition invoke an alternate understanding of basic logic (ie 1st Order Predicate Calculus). To date no proof or demonstration, only an oft repeated claim, has been forthcoming to demonstrate the short-fall in the traditional approach. While the issues based on faith are clearly outside the purvue of rational proof the invocation of alternate logics to back them up is not. It falls on the current cadre of supporters to demonstrate two things: 1. The shortfall in comprehension or understanding that occurs with the traditional approach 2. How the new system addresses these shortcoming succsfully. In short, if these folks really want us to believe their assertion: ^(A) <> (^A) Then they need to demonstrate why De Morgans Law and other derivations of this logical axiom are incorrect and how this alternate inversion identity corrects these failures. *IF* this can be accomplished then the remainder of their argument has some basis in consideration. The catch they don't seem to have seen is that when one inokes an empirical philosophy in the support of a faith based philosophy it is done at the behest and within the guidelines of the empirical philosophy. To do otherwise is to change the rules in the middle of the game. How many people believe it is irrelevant, how many books are written is irrelevant. All that matters is demonstrating the proof within the boundary conditions. It is not an issue of personality or popularity. Myself, I don't believe they can do it. Computers work, crypto works, man got to the moon, medicine works, airplanes fly, etc., etc., etc. As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. It's time these folks got their butts in the kitchen. ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------