When I got censored by cypherpunks@lne.com a couple of weeks ago I tried to subscribe to these nodes: Algebra Infonex Lne Minder Sunder Pro-ns Openpgp Ccc Subscription was successful only on: Algebra Pro-ns Both of thse provided a "who" response on 11/10/03 of Algebra 122 Pro-ns 14 I get the same messages from Algebra, Pro-ns and Lne, though Lne still refuses mail from me. How many other subscribers are exluded by the censorious and dead nodes is not known. Eric calls his Lne block a result of spam from my provider, to me it's no different than censorship, a perfect imitation of how government justifies its suppression of dissent. Tim didn't mention as a cause of cpunk decline the fucking with the list by shitheads who thought they knew best how to run things, the first goal being censorship of those who didn't behave. Once, Tim was a prime target of such shit and he did a nice job of killing the controllers. Now if you kill the bureaucrats, and the youngsters, for overreaching, or indifference to authority, you got to figure out how to do the dirty work of cleaning up after the masters' spiteful running the country, the firm, the estate, the family, the ideology into the ground. What I like about the ring-in-the-flesh crowd is their pleasure in grossing out the stodgers. Makes me wish I still had that knack instead of only the memories.