C2Net was wrong to censor the cypherpunks list in the guise of moderation. It was wrong to send threatening letters to people who claimed its products were weak. The whole moderation/censorship experiment was a terrible mistake. The actions taken by C2Net were completely unjustified. At the same time, it is dishonest to say that its products have backdoors or are weak. There is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case. It may stretch the intellects of some cypherpunks beyond the breaking point to hold these two views about matters at the same time. In the black and white world where some cypherpunks live, a company which tries to prevent criticism is evil, hence it must be fraudulent as well. More mature list readers will recognize that a company or a person can be wrong in some actions while being right in other ways. The burden of proof in claiming that there is a weakness in someone's security product is on those making the claim. Compare the unfounded statements by Vulis with the carefully documented breaks of weak software by Ian Goldberg, David Wagner, John Kelsey, and Bruce Schneier. What if Goldberg and Wagner had claimed that Netscape's RNG seeding was weak, without providing any more evidence than that claim? What if Schneier et al had broken cellular phone encryption without backing it up? They would have been justifiably ignored. If anyone really does believe that C2Net's products have backdoors or weaknesses, why don't they present them? Either they want people to keep using C2Net's supposedly broken products, which reflects badly on them, or they want people to stop but they are unable to present any evidence of these purported weaknesses. When Vulis or anyone else claims Stronghold is broken, ask him why he is presenting his claims in a form which will cause people to keep using this "broken" software. Does he want people to have weak encryption? Is he in favor of backdoors? If not, he would surely present evidence of the weaknesses, if there is any. Make Vulis explain his motivations when he makes these claims.