On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:
At 6:18 PM 6/6/96, Rich Graves wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Bruce Baugh, who usually knows better, wrote:
Fascism has no intrinsic link to genocide. It is a theory of economics, basically, in which the state has ultimate authority over production and distribution without (as in socialism) actually _owning_ the means of ... Yes, I'm afraid these ahistorical myths are widespread. What _do_ they teach in these schools?
Pick up anything by Renzo De Felice to gain a basic historical understanding of what fascism was about, from someone who was sympathetic to them.
Rich, I don't think it nearly so clear as you are claiming. The definition of fascism, that is. Without resorting to the usual ploy of quoting Webster's (a ploy I usually am not impressed by), let me cite an
Actually, perhaps you *should* check Webster's... you forget that I'm a Certified Political Scientist. The etymology of fascism is particularly on point. Historically, it refers to the building of a military vanguard as an outgrowth of risorgimento, Italy's process of becoming a independent, unified [fucking] state rather than a bunch of weak city-states, which were often dominated by French, Prussian, or Austria-Hungarian interests. In an interesting turn from the theme of this list, Italians from the 1870's through Mussolini saw a strong, centralized state as the best way to be free from tyranny and government theft. I'm not much of an historian of Italy, though, so I won't pursue this point. Besides, it came from a peculiar set of historical circumstances that CLEARLY do not apply to the US today.
"anti-fascist" radio personality, Dave Emory, who I have been listening to nearly every week for several years.
Dave is undeniably anti-fascist, an unusual mixture of left-leaning views and National Rifle Association sympathies, and he often quotes Mussolini's famous "Fascism is corporatism" line. That is, a view more similar to Bruce
Sounds like my kind of guy. I tend not to be much impressed by radio personalities, but I may look him up. "What is fascism" could be batted about forever; I don't think it's much worth talking about, especially out of historical context. Mussolini started as a Machiavellian who had not read Machiavelli. Early fascism, and the etymology of fascism, was a nationalistic, militaristic struggle for power. Once they got in power, then they started developing an economic ideology. That's how it works with just about every "political theory"... with the exceptions of Marxism, libertarianism, and religious fundamentalism, perhaps.
Baugh's point that fascism is primarily an economic theory, about the organization and ownership of production systems, than about hatred of any particular ethnic group.
Of "particular" ethnic groups, probably no. Ezra Pound's antisemitism was actually pretty unusual. But fascism's essence is rabid, disciplined nationalism of the militaristic kind. Not really xenophobic and explicitly genocidal like "National Socialism," which isn't descriptive but was just a name/party that Hitler was able to hijack to put his extended rant Mein Kampf into practice, but definitely conscious of the "national character" to the exclusion of any other.
("Fascism is corporatism" is of course not an overall indictment of all corporations. "Corporatism" is basically a view that government should identify key industries and corporations and then pick the winners and support them while suppressing their competitors. This oversimplifies what Mussolini, Emory, myself, etc. mean by "corporatism," but I hope this gives at least a glimpse.
That's one glimpse, but I think it's worthwile clarifying that corporatism isn't about corporations. It's organizing societal groups into officially recognized corps. Corporatism defines people by their profession, to the exclusion of any other ties that bind (religion, family, hobbies, political views, race -- cuz they're all assumed to be of the same "national character" anyway) and all transactions among the various corps is mediated by the government. An excellent example of corporatism is Mexico's PRI (Institutional Revolutionary Party), which is essentially to say the Mexican government, which is functionally divided into units such as the CTM (Confederation of Mexican Workers, an umbrella for legally sanctioned trade unions). -rich