On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
mattd wrote:
US violates the Geneva Convention
The US is a signatory to the Geneva Convention, which specifies the conditions under which such prisoners are to be treated. The Convention covers irregular forces such as al-Qaeda as well as regular armed forces,
Al-Quaeda is not a military force by any reasonable reckoning;
I don't know what your definition of military force is Marc, but any *group* of persons who are armed and engaged in common cause qualify as a military force in my book. According to dictionary.com, "military" is defined as: military (ml-tr) adj. Of, relating to, or characteristic of members of the armed forces: a military bearing; military attire. Performed or supported by the armed forces: military service. Of or relating to war: military operations. Of or relating to land forces. You may not approve of calling groups you disagree with "military", yet it does not change the facts.
it is a criminal association whose victims are defenseless and innocent of any involvement (pro or anti) in the cause that the criminal association claims to espouse.
I assume you are referring to the WTC victims here. Sorry, but they were not "innocent". They, as participants in the selection of the rulers of this country, are 100% guilty of the many crimes perpetrated by the United States against other peoples. As for AQ being a "criminal association": how do you arrive at this? I suspect you get there by considering their acts to be outside of accepted behaviour (of any "lawful" society). If so, then I agree that they qualify as a "criminal association", however, this definition also qualifies the USA as a criminal association. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, ya?
and a quick skim suggests that the US are violating it in several ways. Interrogation: the US has publicly stated they will interrogate the prisoners; however this is specificly forbidden by the convention.
Interrogation is certainly NOT prohibited by the Convention. Where are you getting this nonsense?
He hallicinates a lot when he runs out of Thorazine.
Trial and punishment: POWs are considered to be subject to the same laws and regulations as soldiers of the detaining power; they may be tried only by military courts (except where jurisdiction would normally belong to civil courts), and sentances must be the same as for soldiers of the detaining power commiting similar acts. POWs tried for acts commited prior to capture retain the benefits of the Convention even if convicted.
I'll say it again - these are not prisoners of war!
Really? Fuhrer Bush disagrees with you. Our Maximum Leader has "declared" a "war on terrorism" (conveniently leaving out our own terrorist tendencies and acts). It was this "war" which led to the detention of these prisoners. Sorry Marc, these are indeed prisoners of war. Or maybe you consider that all the military force we just used over in Afghanistan was something other than an act of war? Terrorism maybe?
If US prisoners were treated in this manner, the US would be kicking and screaming. Is this another case of US moral exceptionalism?
I just *hate* to agree with mattd, but he's right on target here.
If the US prisoners in question had engineered, or were suspected of having engineered, the deaths of thousands of innocent people,
You can't *possibly* be this naive.
I suspect that even LESS sympathy or consideration would be shown them. They certainly would not get any from me.
Talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?
Marc de Piolenc
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------