On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 measl@mfn.org wrote:
While I agree with you in principal, it would not be an easy thing to do under the [constituional] circumstances. The problem is that the law is well settled that a president may invoke these powers during times of _declared_ war. Although congress declined a formal declaration, they did provide a defacto one with their support and authorization of military force ditty. It
That in itself isn't constitutional. Congress MUST!!! vote for, otherwise it is an automatic nay.
You are arguing mere _facts_, I am arguing the _reality_ :-) The _fact_ that something [many things right now] are unconstitutional is completely irrelevant if nobody is willing to enforce the constitution which is being violated. In short, if nobody _does anything about it_, constitutionality is irrelevant. Let's face it, the majority of the people I know, both IRL and here, bitch and moan about the kind of egregious behaviour Shrub and his Band Of Traveling Fascists are so good at, but how many of us have (to put it into TimSpeak) done anything about those who "need killing"? Anyone who has not taken positive action, and this includes both me and you Jim, does not actually deserve the protections afforded by that scrap of parchment you have managed to memorize. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------