It's kind of ironic, because on the one hand Borenstein is using some nice technology which would lend itsef very well to crypto protocols, electronic cash, and other privacy-protecting transactions. But it is being used to facilitate VISA card payments and many people have raised questions about the security of the system. When you place an order, you get a safe-tcl style "enabled mail" message (which Tim would hate!). This is readable but if you have safe-tcl running it will actually pop up a dialog box or something which you can click on to confirm your payment. I think this would be a good thing for DigiCash to copy if/when they start supporting email transactions. It would be fun for Magic Money too. Borenstein and First Virtual also have a whole set of MIME extensions for electronic transactions which might also serve as a model for more general types of payments. Maybe Rich could ask whether they are considering that. In general, FV has a lot of good ideas IMO, but it's too bad they are still tied to the old models of payment. Hal