On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 09:03:43AM -0400, Sunder wrote:
(more idiotic bullshit deleted)
Should we really be able to make up our own definitions and turn things which merely annoy us into crimes? Think about it a bit longer before you reply again.
"merely annoy"? Excessive noise, or smoke, or chemical pollutants are not mere annoyances, they are detrimental to health and safety and are physical assaults, and anyone has a moral right, at least, to use force to protect themselves from such. If it weren't for the fact that I'd get arrested, I'd certainly have no moral qualms whatsoever about blowing away a smoker on the street, or the guy with the loud stereo, or the farmer next door whose ag chemicals ended up in my well water. People who are that inconsiderate of others don't belong in the gene pool. And what I'm seeing a lot of lately are people who profess to be libertarians who see nothing wrong with forcing others to smoke along with them, or listen to their choice of music, or disturb other people's peace and quietude, or even forcefully poison other people's land and water. Especially when it's done in the name of profit, eh? The LP's stance on the Iraq war was more or less the last straw for me, but certainly the attitudes of people like yourself have helped me to see the error of my ways, i.e., voting libertarian the last 15 years or so. And, of course, the statements from idots like Hettinga rejoicing in the looting of Iraq's museums so "it can all go to the highest bidder" helped a lot. It's really funny how many people I've talked to recently who were all excited about the libertarian freestate movement until I told them that those people would sell off all the public parks to the highest bidder, not to mention trash all the environmental laws. But it's all pretty irrelevant anyway, as is the LP. Just another dead horse that very few people will ever vote for. Crypto-anarchy might actually get somewhere, but the LP won't.
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Being assaulted by others smoke, noise, chemical pollutants or whatever is no different than being assualted by their fist. I find it more than a little amusing that most of the so-called "libertarians" I come across haven't the slightest clue that their "freedom" ends at my personal space. One of the main reasons I no longer contribute to the LP and probably won't vote for any more LP candidates, since most libertarians seem to express the attitude of "Fuck everybody else, I can do whatever I want."
-- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com