-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Must ALL my e-mail be re-posted to this damn list? I will AGAIN remind careful readers: _Anything_ that does not begin with the words: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED.... and end with my little play on the sound of J. Edgar Freeh's name may *or may not* be from me, and is more likely to simply be from someone:a) clue-impaired and b) noisy. Actual Jim Ray posts also tend to have fewer typos, and be both more detailed and shorter than this did, because I proof them and I tend not to proofread private e-mail. I will now clutter the list to respond to this nitwit's moronic claims in public, please direct all Perrygrams to <jf_avon@citenet.net> [GROAN!--Why me???] Oh yeah. Ray's Corrolary to Murphy:"You will be spared _NOTHING_." <sigh> I'll attempt to cut as much as possible to put wasted space to a minimum. My apologies to those not interested, who are advised to hit delete now (I'd imagine that includes many or most of you). JMR jf_avon@citenet.net for some strange reason posted: ...
Is there a Detweiller FAQ somewhere?
There's even a page, near the top of my page. He's also mentioned under "don't feed the animals" in the welcome message. He is intelligent, and he's quieter than he used to be, perhaps taking his meds.
Interesting. Has AP ever popped-up in the conventional medias?
AFAIK not yet, but I could be wrong. If I were Slick Willie, it would have been all over the place by now. [BTW, for the record, I don't make a habit of calling those who would advocate violence "loon" in a public forum. There are thus self-preservation advantages to actually convincing the clueless to lurk, look at message headers, and read "Netiquet" before posting. <sigh>]
Then, again, I know an awfull lot of people who would applaude Bell. But most of them are not computer litterate. They are from another generation, not brainwashed by "Don't ask what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"...
How do these people vote, though? [Prediction: majority statist.] You can't complain when the govt. gives what you ask for... [Absent the unConstitutional ballot-laws we are blessed with here in Florida.]
I'm 35, and I may actually die before I do. I hope not.
[Sniped to convey no context whatsoever] I was talking about the very low odds of me someday actually *respecting* a living US President, for those of you without telepathy skills. I *would* feel old by haing this revealed, but I just learned of a cypherpunk _grandmother_! [No, I won't say who.]
[Black humor] any AP proponents with an eye (or a buck) on you? :)
Possibly. Bell insists Libertarians like me shouldn't worry. I worry, because statists' money spends just as well as mine. Tim joked a while back about putting a "fire-and-forget" K out on me when I was *last* misquoted as the "Cyberangel." I seem to attract this crap, but I assure you it's NOT AT ALL deliberate. All is forgiven, no apology needed, just please try to be careful and remember the other 1000+ subscribers. ...
This kind of thinking might authorize a massive Cherokee massacre if it spread, IMO.
Please, do point out the similarities and the differences... I think that the context is very different.
Not really, only the time in history. Their property was 100% taken, and they were marched to OK from GA. The IRS may be bad...but they aren't THAT bad...[disclaimer: I am (a tiny) part Cherokee, and I hate the IRS (a lot).] ...
Are you talking of an open war a la Bosnia?
Hopefully not. It is what I fear.
We must either leave some wrongs in the past or be cursed with them forever.
This is what I was talking about taking things out of context. Since you agree on that, the Cherokee thing is ruled out. But govt action are a matter of the present and future. Some peoples see it as legitimate self-defense.
I disagree on ruling Cherokees out, _I_ decide what I rule out, not you. The legitimate *peaceful* self defense options have not yet been adequately explored, IMO.
...
Bottom line for me: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Please state the basic premise that make you declare what is "wrong" in the context of AP.
"Thou shalt not kill..." [pretty basic stuff here...]
I am not bugging you simply to do so. For example, do you think that, for ethical reasons, you are not only justified but actually *obligated* to use physical violence in certain contexts? I guess not.
No, just not as a first-resort in non-life-threatening contexts.
But many peoples think they have to...
If they break my door down and want my gun or PGPkey, I may shoot. No matter who does this, they could die if they go far enough. I will not seek to kill anyone from afar, though, and I'd have to feel in immediate fear for my life before I can morally justify killing another person. Luckily, it hasn't happened so far.
I think that you simply try to evade the necessity of defining for yourself what exactly is what the govt is doing.
Taxation is theft, I fail to see your point. Murder isn't the sole, or even first, option to prevent theft when you can do things like lock your doors. [encrypt] Did the OKCity bombing reduce the size of government, or increase it? (As I predicted, increase. I hate it when I'm right.) Violence begats violence. Always. ...
General opinion is not what define truth nor reality. If I refuse to pay my taxes, they'll use physical violence to get what they want. You might object that I enjoyed the benefits of the spending of taxes, but I am yet to see any contract that I entered with "society".
At this point, as an individual protest, a (suicidal) "freeman" like stand is justified if you like the idea of being a dead hero. I don't. Yet. There are other options. But general opinion _does_ define political reality, so best that there be more responsible uses of anonymity at this very delicate point in the remailernet's political life. There seem to be less. ...me -- [AssPol would have to entail an oligarchy...]
This scheme is *not* an oligarchy. Pay a visit to any good dictionary near you. Words have precise meaning and it is *much* better to stick to it...
I said entail, *you* read a dictionary. The scheme relies on $, and more $ gives you more "votes" on who to kill. Oligarchy, a rule by the rich. I stuck exactly to it. Read more carefully in the *non-header* part of messages, too.
Actually, since it is ruled by money, it might be a "buckarchy", but again, everybody can spare a few bucks, so it might be a democracy too if you insist on twisting the meaning of words.
HUH???? "buckarchy" isn't in my dictionary...I neither twisted *nor invented* any words. Democracy is also a legitimate fear, and the operative word in your statement is "might." Well, might NOT also... I happen to prefer a constitutional republic to democracy anyway. Tim May has written well on this, and on why. [Hi Tim.]
and I think I'd be an easy target for wealthy statists, who could also use the system.
At first look, of course. But operationnally, you have to consider the mind of the statist to figure out the likeliness of their using the system? I do not deny that it is very likely that a few statists will use the system. But most won't because they don't like to slain their milk cows.
That's not how I view statists. Your faith is admirable, but I won't share it soon. Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, Bush, Biden, Dole, etc. - they all would just as soon see me as hamburger as milk cow. As hamburger I'm no longer such a smart-ass under their skins. I have seen how history describes the minds of statists who don't get their way & it's not pretty. _Many_ statists have the $ to kill me, without AP, this would make me cheap and compromise the privacy of the remailernet [probably] or just cause remailers to be outlawed. If I operated a remailer, and you bought or sold 500 lbs of cannabis through it, I would try to cooperate to the minimum possible extent of the law, ad perhaps go to jail for contempt, it depends. If you tried AP, I would let the BATF (yes, I hate them, too) log all your use (while trying to somehow protect my innocent users' privacy). I again boil it down to my Jim Ray test:"Where's the victim?"<imagine Clara Peller here>
If Bell could post fewer times, he'd be more convincing. He is in many killfiles. JMR
And now, it's likely that I am, too. Allow me to reduce noise even furter by preemptively saying "Plonk" right now, so it doesn't need to be announced twice on the poor, groaning list.
Many peoples cannot stand to see any opinions that differs from theirs. But why care at all be read by such peoples?
It's not that, I was speaking of post-frequency-noise. I had seen the idea before Jimbell ever had it, in Tim May's Cyphernomicon. Tim has interesting, different things to say. Jimbell doesn't. Whether I agree has nothing at all to do with repetitiousness. I will try VERY hard not to post again on this. Please help by letting me have the last word (for once). How's this: Unsollicited[sic] public posting of private e-mail will be refuted at US165 $/h Any sender of such material will be considered as to have accepted the above mentionned[sic] terms. JMR PS, while I am making non-crypto-noise anyway... ================================================ Tim also wrote [in another message/thread]: <...>
(ObCaveat: I personally think a free society cannot/should not outlaw discrimination in any form, save that by government.)
Which is exactly the opposite of what we are faced with right now. Gee, I wonder why race relations are doing so poorly nowadays? We need more government intervention in this vital area... </sarcasm> Jim Ray -- DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy. "Your federal government needs your money so that it can perform vital services for you that you would not think up in a million years." -- Dave Barry ___________________________________________________________________ PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 <liberty@gate.net> http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray ___________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQCVAwUBMaHkdG1lp8bpvW01AQFJzAP6A0Vc25O61daOa6hnnZ8b0iSA5KYCS++q zYXWrpYWujH6L8qF0USTkJ7Su1rVW3ge4GSsBMflwp8fp4Wh2By3PafX1CPF7TTl a2Ns6eCO8SeUu4oGWnTQ2xeNR7ic07b2k+yuAVooR0f7qZQbE7SI7YHx/jhpz4Cp AtBuBs9hYLo= =FMxv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----