On Fri, May 16, 1997 at 12:34:33PM +0200, Ulf Möller wrote:
Hmm. I did read, and I thought I understood this. I claim that if the remailers collude, then there in no anonymity. Correct?
Correct.
Even if I insert my own remailer in the list it doesn't help, if the others are all in cahoots. This seems pretty obvious. They all compare logs, and saved copies of the messages, and my message can be tracked from beginning to end. Right?
Wrong. One trusted mix is enough to guarantee anonymity: There is a large number of fixed-size messages coming in and a large number of messages going out in random order. (Consult the archives for information about possible attacks, such as flooding a remailer with dummy messages, and how to detect/prevent them.)
"Guarantee" is a strong word, wouldn't you say? Simple case: you have two messages; one you know I wrote, the other I didn't, you don't know which. You could say that is "anonymity". That's a reasonable use of the term. But it wouldn't make me feel secure. So that boils down to what is a "large" number. (I confess I *haven't* read the archives about flooding attacks. However, I don't see how they could be guarded against if *all* the other remailers are in collusion. But perhaps that case has been considered...)
I see a list of remailers posted on cypherpunks periodically -- a "cypherpunks" approved list, therefore. Lucky Green admits publically that he personally knows several of the remailer operators.
So you say Raph actually *is* part of the cypherpunk conspirary??!
Of course. I don't know Raph from Adam -- *I* just see a list posted on cypherpunks. For that matter, of course, you could be Tim May, as are all the "(T)ruth (M)ongers", and many other of the "personalities" on this list...
BTW, that list is the "list of reliable remailers", not the "list of cypherpunk approved remailers". Now guess how a remailer qualifies to be listed.
J E Hoover certified them? If I persist in my conspiracy theory, then it makes absolutely no difference how they qualify -- the list is just text produced by the cp conspiracy, after all, creatively edited to make it look legit. But seriously, I thought it was buy sending "ping" messages through them -- is there something more to it?
And clearly, remailer operators must share a common ideological focus...
Remailer operators share the belief that it must be possible to use the net anonymously, without leaving traces. Is that what you mean?
PS: Did you know that one remailer operator formerly was a soldier in East Germany's National People's Army?
How do you know that? And why should I believe you? Anyway, Ulf, as I said in my previous message, this was all started by me poking fun of my "contemptible" status among the cyphperpunks. That status is partially fueled by the fact that I work for that evil conspiracy, the "government". (In all honesty, I must confess that it may also be partially fueled by various failings of my own.) -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html