We DON'T live in a "capitalist" (free market, if you prefer) society. If we didn't have socalism transferring wealth, I would not need to pay taxes, nor worry about having government take my wealth at gunpoint. Saying that Argentina is "capitalist" is the mistake, not that it is an example where it does not work. I would like an example where socialism does work - by "work" I mean that resources are used efficiently. Hong Kong and Singapore exist. The latter is far from free, politically, but the economic freedom leads to efficient use of resources. The closest thing to a "working" socialist society I can think of is a monastary (many do become wealthy), but I don't think the majority of the population can emulate it. The Amish may be socialist, but are they economically efficient? Any real capitalist society will be inferior to an imaginary socialist utopia, just as cars are far more efficient where inertia and aerodynamics don't exist. Also, to define terms (for the purposes here, and to correct confusion from earlier posts): Socialism is where the government controls the means of production (this includes regulation, so that I may "own" a factory, but the government tells me what to produce, and/or how much and/or at what price). Capitalism (or pick another word) is where private individuals (potentially acting collectively in a corporation) control the means of production, and make the decisions of what and how much to produce, and what price to sell it at. Capital is a factor in production. By Capitalism, I don't mean corpratism. Corporations find it in their interest to pass protectionist laws and corporate welfare benefits and thus destroy free enterprise. If you can keep small businesses to a minimum, they will have less chance of becoming competitors. But corpratism requires government to set the product, quantity, or price, which is under my definition of socialism. I also don't mean anarchy, in the sense that I have to protect myself individually from violence, theft, and fraud. That is one of the few proper functions of government. Trade doesn't flourish when each monitary transaction is trumped by weapons. My point is that the Capitalist (free enterprise) society will be wealthier and happier than a socialist society, not that it will be perfect. Corporations will benefit from many things, even in a free enterprise society - and I hope they do, since (with the current bias against independent contractors - another socialist idea) I stand a better chance of being employed and making money the more healthy corporations compete for my labor. tz@execpc.com finger tz@execpc.com for PGP key