It is strange that crypto was a lot more popular back when cryptography export was heavily controlled. Many people fought for their crypto rights, but cannot be bothered with encrypted e-mail. It is similar to securing the right to vote and then declining to do so. Lucky indicates that strong crypto has gone "under the hood" and is now "mainstream" and "ubiquitous". This is not true. There are countless e-mail and instant messages sent as plaintext across networks, through wireless, and over the Internet. Also "under-the-hood" is a risky place for crypto. It may be "patched" or "upgraded" right out of your system. Or perhaps "improved" to 40-bit for optimum performance. Stand alone cryptography is best. I enjoy sealing my personal letters in an envelope. I am uncomfortable entrusting that process to a third-party, or to the mailman. I am similarly uncomfortable entrusting e-mail encryption to an embedded system and cached authentication systems. Curt --- Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> wrote: You may be asking yourself: where, oh where, has all the crypto gone? Where are the BlackNet's? Where is the untraceable Ecash? Where is the Cryptanarchy that we've been waiting for? For that matter...where is the crypto? The staunchest Cypherpunk will by now have noticed that PGP/GPG usage even amongst list members, once the bellwether indicator of Cypherpunks crypto adoption success, is in decline. ...(segment elided) Where has the crypto gone? The crypto has gone under the hood, away from the UI, to a place where the crypto will be of most use to the average user. Yes, for crypto to be secure against the active, well resourced, attacker, the crypto must at one point touch the user to permit the user to make a trust decision. But to secure communications from passive and/or less resourced attacker, crypto can be placed under the hood. ...(segment elided) Where has all the crypto gone? It has gone mainstream. Some of you may remember the discussions from years ago how we should try to find a way to make crypto cool and attractive for the average person. ...(segment elided) Crypto has gone as mainstream as can be. While crypto for crypt's sake may not have become cool to everybody, crypto has become a Must Have for your average 14 year-old high school freshman girl. Crypto has become ubiquitous. ===== end Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com