On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, Dave Kinchlea wrote:
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:08:39 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Kinchlea <security@kinch.ark.com> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org To: aga <aga@dhp.com> Cc: InterNet Freedom Council <ifc@pgh.org>, freedom-knights@jetcafe.org, cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, aga wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Dave Kinchlea wrote:
So, you send all of your snail mail on post cards do you? No sealed envelopes at all? Afterall you have nothing to hide, right?
Irrelevant analogy; snail.mail and e-mail. The former is in physical form, and the latter usually never is.
No kidding, thanks for that information. Perhaps you can explain how it is relevant?
it is not -- I said irrelevant.
Of course not, privacy isn't about being a criminal, its about being private. It is not akin to anonymity, *perhaps* those who work anonymously have `something to hide' (still doesn't necessarily make them a criminal, however),
Anonymity on the InterNet is a Constitutional right, and is the sole supporter of freedom of speech.
Another irrelevant and completely inaccurate point. I utilize free speech everyday yet I manage to do it without anonymity.
so? that is you. but if a motherfucker wants to be anonymous, he must be allowed; there is no exception to the rule.
I'll let someone else field that as I feel that anonymity is rarely a good thing.
I disagree, anonymity is a good thing that will never be questioned by anybody, but your PGP will, and it is really not safe anyway.
ha ha ha, not by anybody huh. What world do you live in? I know plenty of people who feel that if you must say something anonymously `you must be hiding something, probably a criminal!'. I don't subscribe to this, I feel that most people who post anonymously are just chicken-shits, but that too is besides the point. It *is* questioned by many people.
fuck them.
And as to PGP not being safe, perhaps you could expand a bit on this, it hasn't hurt me or anyone I know, seems pretty safe to me. To address what I assume your point was, it acts as a prefectly good sealed envelope (and I believe quite a bit more), in the context of my original reply, this is quite `safe'.
never ever rely on something being encoded and not able to be unencoded, that is not possible. whatever man can do, man can undue, and that is a law of nature that has no exception.
Privacy, on the other hand, simply means that not everything I do is any of your business and I would just as soon you not be tempted to even bother trying to find out.
If you do not send it to me by e-mail, I will never see it.
Nor will you see my post-card that I send to my mom, how does that change the nature of a post-card OR email?
Why are you so paranoid that someone is reading your e-mail?
Paranoid? No, but why make it easy for anyone to do so?
I never do anything criminal, so I could give a shit less if everybody reads all of my fucking mail.
so how is it different, besides being electronic, from snail mail? I repeat, why don't you use post-cards exclusively for mail? Oh yes, that is `print', a totally different thing, geesh.
no, you just need envelopes for multiple pages.
Of course, if all of your personal mail (including financial statements etc) is sent on post cards, then (while I think you would be crazy) I will at least admit you are consistent. Else, I think you need to look hard at the logic you are using.
Again, inconsistant analogy. This is nothing but photons in it's ultimate form, and it will never see paper. Anything that _you_ print is not attributable to me, and any e-mail printed by you would never be acceptable as a court exhibit.
You appear to be confused, I look at what I wrote and I see nothing at all that mentions courts. I am talking about personal privacy and the analogy is not at all inconsistent. (and paper mail is nothing but atoms in it's ultimate form, so what?)
You have it. Just never print anything.
stop getting cyberspace mixed up with print.
Why do you think there is something magical about `cyberspace'? Privacy is privacy, period. Communication is communication, period. There is no reason to differentiate private communication via print and private communication via cyberspace. Both are desirable for exactly the same reasons.
why do you put that cypherpunks address in the header? just where did this e-mail originate from?
Thats how it landed on my plate, thats where I send it back, seems reasonable to me.
Yeah, but some motherfucker is sending this shit to that list I think. What a fucking joke that is.
cheers, kinch
cheers, -aga