so interesting thread on crypto ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ray Dillinger <[1]bear@sonic.net> Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Electronic currency revived after 20-year hiatus To: [2]cryptography@metzdowd.com On 08/17/2016 06:21 PM, Natanael wrote: > All previous solutions required gatekeepers, because they all failed if the > adversary could perform a Sybil attack (flood the network with nodes). You're wrong. Existing solutions for the Byzantine Generals Problem provide for any two correctly functioning nodes to reach agreement regardless of what any or all other nodes do. Sybil attacks do not affect the correctness of the solution. The problem with them is that required bandwidth per peer scale with the square of the total number of all other peers. And sybil attacks DO affect the scale of the problem for bandwidth purposes. With block chains the required bandwidth per peer scales linearly with the number of all other peers (well, technically with the size of the transactions done by all other peers), making it more scalable (but still not scalable to the level of a widely used payment network). The "Lightning Network" solves a problem for people who do many transactions per day with each other. There is no merchant nor client with whom I do more than one transaction per day, so absolutely none of my transactions would wind up using it. I expect it to have some real impact on the bandwidth and size of the block chain because some business models are absolutely pathological in terms of number of transactions per day by individual customers (like casinos or speculative markets) but not nearly as much as its proponents hope because it simply isn't applicable to ordinary tx (like grocery stores, office supply vendors, restaurants, or investment markets). And it still doesn't solve the problem that Trusted parties have emerged in the form of online wallets and exchanges etc, and they are failing and/or goxxing people on a regular basis. Multimillion dollar losses, thefts, and swindles impose public as well as private expense. Legislators, Law enforcers, and civil courts cannot ignore them because the people who get goxxed when they happen won't allow them to. Legislation, law enforcement, and both civil and criminal prosecutions in court are damned expensive, and will accordingly attract taxation and regulation as the taxpayers underwriting that expense use their governments to seek to limit their losses. Being a self-sufficient or self-regulating system does not include placing fiscal burdens on the public without taxation. Nor does it include freeloading on public law enforcement, legislative, and judicial resources without regulation. Bear _______________________________________________ The cryptography mailing list [3]cryptography@metzdowd.com [4]http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 [5]carimachet@gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet <[6]https://twitter.com/carimachet> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. References 1. mailto:bear@sonic.net 2. mailto:cryptography@metzdowd.com 3. mailto:cryptography@metzdowd.com 4. http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography 5. mailto:carimachet@gmail.com 6. https://twitter.com/carimachet