On 7/20/15 9:07 PM, Juan wrote:


        Hey. *Now* I get it.

        This mailing list has a lot of tor-tards who are apologists of
        the pentagon's propaganda and spying efforts.

   Are you saying that the Pentagon is never good or useful?  Nor are any
   of their spying efforts?


        It has people who say that the NSA does good things (coderman)

   They don't?


        It has apologists of the US marines.

   You have never benefited in any way from the US marines?  The footprint
   there is pretty large.  You think they are somehow fundamentally evil
   when they don't determine their goals or rules of engagement?  Their
   job is to be a bad ass tool, the proverbial big stick.  It is someone
   else's job to decide how to use that tool.  Marines don't kill people,
   politicians using Marines kill people.  Err, something like that.


        It has high ranking scumbags from the CIA.

   There are high ranking scumbags from the CIA here?  Interesting.
   Is everyone from the CIA scumbags by definition?

        It has commie 'anarchists' who are offended by (and would love
        to silence) people who badmouth the marines' apologists.

   Eh?


        And NOW it also has a google and cloud apologist. Welcome
        Stephen =) You are yet another reason to distrust the FLOSS movement and
        its bloatware.

   FLOSS has bloatware?  Are you using the same meaning as the rest of
   us?  What's your favorite alternative?
   Someone explaining bits of the world are not necessarily an apologist
   for those bits.  Trying to correct or moderate viewpoint extremism (see
   what I did there?) with more balance, or logic, or other viewpoints
   isn't necessarily being an apologist either; that's the kind of
   accusation that usually comes from someone slinging not fully supported
   barbs.  I do think Google is better than some other companies, but
   that's pretty weak on the apologist scale; I was more making a
   statement about a class of companies and how they should rationally act
   with respect to security.

J.


   What's your alternative to all of these things?  If you really are into
   security in any sense, you should be able to explain what security
   exposures moderating or eliminating those entities would cause and what
   you would advocate to replace them.
   I'm offended in various ways by a lot of what happened in the past,
   often in organizations like DOJ, FBI, etc. that should have known
   better.  I would even say that a lot of government employees and
   contractors seem to have got away with a lot of things they shouldn't
   have.  But that doesn't mean that any of those organizations are
   fundamentally evil and aren't almost completely staffed by intelligent,
   respectable people.
   Anyway, if you're still in the rebelling against authority stage, fine,
   have fun.  Good luck with that.  In the US, government wise, the people
   are the authority, their own authority in essence, it just may take a
   long time for that to play out in a given area.  In some ways, this is
   also true for companies, with some nuance.
   sdw