How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow

Mon Nov 9 14:56:52 PST 2020

Curl performs an HTTP request, like a web browser does as the first
thing when you visit a website.  I didn't know you were unfamiliar
with curl or I wouldn't have pasted the output to you.  The output
includes details that would help the administrator of
wiki.hackerspaces.org relate around the issue I experience.  But if
you can paste your output, it would help me understand what is going
on, myself, and others on the list too if they have interest.

301 and 302 mean the url is forwarding you somewhere else.  It should
say where else it is forwarding you to, notably in the `Location: `
header if you pass `-v`.  Pass `-L` to automatically follow those
redirects.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:48 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmm, I'm not sure what curl is supposed to do, when I tried it on
> http rather than https, I got 301:  moved permanently.
>
> When I tried known sites like mit.edu, I got a 302: moved permanently.
>
> So what should it do?
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:04 PM Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > It works.  But try wiki.hackerspaces.org.
> >
> > I don't understand what you mean by `it works`.  What do you think of
> > this terminal snippet?
> > ```
> > $ curl -v https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/
> > * About to connect() to wiki.hackerspaces.org port 443 (#0)
> > *   Trying 212.12.52.48...
> > * Connected to wiki.hackerspaces.org (212.12.52.48) port 443 (#0)
> > * Initializing NSS with certpath: sql:/etc/pki/nssdb
> > *   CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt
> >   CApath: none
> > * SSL connection using TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384
> > * Server certificate:
> > *       subject: CN=wiki.hackspaces.org
> > *       start date: Oct 30 01:00:18 2020 GMT
> > *       expire date: Jan 28 01:00:18 2021 GMT
> > *       common name: wiki.hackspaces.org
> > *       issuer: CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US
> > > GET / HTTP/1.1
> > > User-Agent: curl/7.29.0
> > > Host: wiki.hackerspaces.org
> > > Accept: */*
> > >
> > < HTTP/1.1 504 Gateway Time-out
> > < Server: nginx
> > < Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:03:40 GMT
> > < Content-Type: text/html
> > < Content-Length: 160
> > < Connection: keep-alive
> > <
> > <html>
> > <head><title>504 Gateway Time-out</title></head>
> > <body>
> > <center><h1>504 Gateway Time-out</h1></center>
> > <hr><center>nginx</center>
> > </body>
> > </html>
> > * Connection #0 to host wiki.hackerspaces.org left intact
> > ```
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > So which do you prefer:  accountability or anonymity?  The power goes
> > > > > > > both ways.  Pick one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks advocates of anonimity or something?
> > > > >
> > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you something?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims.  If you want one,
> > > > > you don't get the other.  Get it?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > >         but all those things are controlled by political power. 'information flow' is controlled by US corporations at a global scale for instance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No these things are not just controlled by political power.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         I mean, abstract mathematics is obviously NOT controlled by political power, but all the infrastructure clearly is.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held in
> > > > > politics.  Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic forces
> > > > > of simply wanting to get money.  Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower
> > > > > clothing -- his "knowledge" of seekrit powers in tech devices is
> > > > > bullshit.  There are also social forces driving things.  Unfortunately
> > > > > the powers that run the world are at level 100 or so, while the people
> > > > > are generally at LVL 20 or less, so they get mystified, used,
> > > > > confused, and paranoid.   You've fallen under it because you don't
> > > > > have mastery of the tech.  That's all.  Get a degree and become a real
> > > > > expert or learn by yourself by following paths online, like the one I
> > > > > put on hackerspaces.org (OneTruePath).  OR, get this, simply be
> > > >
> > > > 504 Gateway Error over here, and not on archive.org .
> > > >
> > > > > respectful to other people who HAVE done this work and learn something
> > > > > from THEM.
> > > > >
> > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth.
> > > > >
> > > > > >         Point being, cryptography by itself will get you nowhere, AND cryptography is a pretty toxic tool in the hands of the political powers that control its practical application.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we
> > > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law.  And what is it
> > > > > that we REALLY want to do?  (hmm, free society, creative culture,
> > > > > radical love, ....)
> > > > >
> > > > > \0xD